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Clarification on damage?

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Feb 11, 2005, 03:20 PM // 15:20	#1
Bgnome Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005	Clarification on damage? I believe I may have chanced upon a few of Ensign's writeups but i am unsure as to whether i caught the jist of it, so i would like some clarification on certain specifics: If 60AL is the standard at which damage in item/skill descriptions are based, why does armor penetration seem to have a different effect on 60AL versus 100AL? I recall that Ensign mentioned somewhere that an elemental weapon used to due both physical and elemental damage and thus would be checked twice against armor and whatever elemental bonus that armor had. I am unsure exactly how this works and whether it is still in effect. Also, do elemental weapons / projectiles trigger melee damage skills like healing hands, mark of pain, etc.? Are all nukes affected by armor or are there ones that truly "ignore" armor? Am i correct in concluding that all projectile spells are treated the same as arrows in that they require a path, flight time, are affected by armor, and can be dodged/evaded? I would also appreciate links to the appropriate literature if available. I am sure that there is much to read that I have not yet come to grips on. Last edited by Bgnome; Feb 11, 2005 at 03:40 PM // 15:40..

Old

Feb 11, 2005, 03:39 PM // 15:39

#2

IceD'Bear

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2005

Guild: Awoken Myth [MYTH]

Profession: Mo/

Default

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bgnome

If 60AL is the standard at which damage in item/skill descriptions are based, why does armor penetration seem to have a different effect on 60AL versus 100AL?

60 - 10% = 54
100 - 10% = 90

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bgnome

I recall that Ensign mentioned somewhere that an elemental weapon used to due both physical and elemental damage and thus would be checked twice against armor and whatever elemental bonus that armor had. I am unsure exactly how this works and whether it is still in effect.

Elemental weapons deal all of their damage as elemental damage and deal no physical damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bgnome

Also, do elemental weapons / projectiles trigger melee damage skills like healing hands, mark of pain, etc.?

No. If it says melee damage only physical melee damage conunts, if it says physical then physical melee and physical bow attacks count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bgnome

I have read over some spell descriptions that seem to read as DD nukes however some indicate elemental damage. Is there an elemental effect, ie inherent weakness/resistance, when ignoring armor or are these spells actually projectiles that are affected by armor?

All elemental damage is affected by armor, unless the skill description say otherwise.
Also some armors have +- AL to specific elements, like some monk armors that have -AL vs cold damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bgnome

Am i correct in concluding that all projectile spells are treated the same as arrows in that they require a path, flight time, are affected by armor, and can be dodged/evaded?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bgnome

I would also appreciate links to the appropriate literature if available. I am sure that there is much to read that I have not yet come to grips on.

Guid Wars and Damage
Guild Wars Damage Calculator

IceD'Bear is offline

Feb 11, 2005, 10:18 PM // 22:18	#3
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	60 AL isn't really the base around which things are balanced. The whole system runs on a sliding scale, balancing the game for an AL appropriate for your level. 60 AL is just the point at which the game is balanced for level 20 characters, which is why it is used as a basis for discussions. For level 1 characters, the game is balanced around 3 AL. Armor Penetration takes off a percentage of AL. Linear additions or subtractions to AL have the same result, regardless of the target's armor - so a percentage change takes more AL off a high armor target, which results in a bigger effect. I'm unsure on the status of elementalized weapons. For a long time they dealt both physical and elemental damage - they were separate flags that triggered independently. 'Physical damage' was anything that came from a weapon, while elemental damage applied to anything with an elemental damage type. So a Fire Wand would trigger both the bonuses on Warrior armor and on Ranger armor. If they've changed this, I certainly can't argue - it was stupid having an elemental weapon 'upgrade' making a weapon almost strictly worse - but I have not yet confirmed that in game. Only skills that say they ignore armor do so. The vast majority of nukes do take the target's armor into account. __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Feb 11, 2005, 11:28 PM // 23:28	#4
Weezer_Blue Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Just a Box in a Cage Guild: Hurry Up The Cakes [Oven]	I think most of the "ignores armour" spells are in the smiting monk's line. __________________

Old

Feb 12, 2005, 01:04 AM // 01:04

#5

Luggage

Elite Guru

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: sweden

Question

I'm getting unsure about the damage types for ne, me and mo.
These are wands with Shadow, Holy, Chaos and Dark.

Apart from undead taking +holy damage, what gives?
Are they connected to any attribute and what in that case?
If they are, does a high attribute impact on the damage dealt?

And rpgstars says "In general the holy damage spells ignore armor but deals extra damage to undead monsters." does it really, what about the necro armours with -10 AL against Holy in that case?

I did a quick check on the skill list on gwonline (checked against tgh and ogaming... but I'm tired and can have missed something. The skill list on this site takes too much clicking tho)

Quote:

[size=1]
Me:
No spells are "before armour"
No spells are "takes xx-yy abcd damage"
They are "all" in the line of "takes xx-yy damage"

Ne:
Some spells are "takes xx-yy abcd damage"
Two spells are "before armour"

Mark of Pain
Description: For 30 seconds, whenever target foe takes physical damage, Mark of Pain deals 10-34 shadow damage to adjacent enemies.

Shadow Strike
Description: Target foe takes 12-41 shadow damage. If that foe's health is above 50%, you steal 12-41 health.

Chilblains
Description: You become diseased for 3-13 seconds. Nearby foes are struck for 10-37 cold damage and lose one enchantment.

Desecrate Enchantments
Description: Target foe and all nearby foes take 6-49 shadow damage and 4-17 shadow damage for each enchantment on them.

Feast of Corruption
Description: Target foe and all adjacent foes are struck for 16-67 shadow damage. You steal 8-34 health from each struck foe who is suffering from a hex. This is an elite skill.

Dark Aura
Description: For 30 seconds, whenever target ally sacrifices health, Dark Aura deals 5-41 shadow damage to adjacent enemies, and you lose 5-17 health.

!!
Deathly Chill
Description: Target foe is struck for 5-28 cold damage (before armor). If that foe's health is above 50%, you deal an additional 5-28 shadow damage.

Deathly Swarm
Description: Deathly Swarm flies out slowly and strikes for 15-67 cold damage (before armor) on up to three targets.

Mo:
They are all Holy, apart from one Fire.
No mentions of armour.

Balthazar's Aura
Description: For 10 seconds, foes adjacent to target ally take 3-15 holy damage each second.

Bane Signet
Description: Target foe takes 10-47 holy damage. If that foe was attacking, he is knocked down.

Banish
Description: Target foe takes 10-47 holy damage.

Holy Strike
Description: Target touched foe takes 10-46 holy damage. If knocked down, your target takes an additional 10-22 holy damage.

Scourge Healing
Description: For 30 seconds, every time target foe is healed, the healer takes 15-67 holy damage.

Signet of Judgment
Description: Target foe is knocked down. That foe and all nearby foes take 4-65 holy damage. This is an elite skill.

Smite
Description: This attack deals 10-46 holy damage. If attacking, your target takes an additional 10-22 holy damage.

Symbol of Wrath
Description: For 5 seconds, foes in this location take 6-27 holy damage each second.

Zealot's Fire
Description: For 60 seconds, whenever target ally uses a skill on an ally, all nearby foes are struck for 5-28 fire damage.

EL:
Most are "takes xx-yy abcd damage" with a few exeptions of "this ignores armour" or "takes xx-yy damage"
... no list ZZzzzzZz [/size]

So have I missed something obvious or is this just something that isn't as interesting as the dps of a enchanted sword?

__________________
"Stercus, stercus, stercus, moriturus sum."

Luggage is offline

Feb 12, 2005, 01:41 AM // 01:41	#6
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	Those other damage types just aren't that relevant. Sources of Chaos damage usually ignore armor, and when they don't nothing really cares about it so it doesn't matter. Holy damage deals roughly double damage to undead, and Necromancers in necrotic armor (who said it was -10 vs. Holy?) If most sources of holy damage ignore armor, that just tells you that this doubling is likely outside the armor shifts, or that they're doing something really weird with the armor shift for ignores armor. Shadow is in the same boat. Nothing really cares about it. Dark is just from a couple wands, right? I'd be surprised if those weren't turned into shadow damage. But generally you can treat those types as attacks with no damage type, the results are pretty much the same. Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

Feb 12, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16	#7
Luggage Elite Guru Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: sweden	So basicly apart from (req. X) the only wands of interest are the Holy ones? __________________ "Stercus, stercus, stercus, moriturus sum."

Feb 12, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29	#8
Ensign Just Plain Fluffy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA Guild: Idiot Savants	Well, Holy is of interest because it rips through undead. Chaos and the other types are interesting in that nothing that I know of has a resistance to them, so their effectiveness doesn't fluctuate the way a fire wand's will. Meh, they're just wands. Use the one with the high damage. =p Peace, -CxE __________________ Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

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